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Which Torque Conterter

 
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Captain Air Time
BFix Locked and Loaded
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Joined: 07 Jan 2002
Posts: 1218
Location: Campbell River BC

PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:33 pm    Post subject: Which Torque Conterter Reply with quote

You need to have it custom built if its not for a specific application.  To do it right, they need to know:
Intended use
Vehicle weight
Torque curve.
The stall speed will vary with power and weight changes.  Do a web search, theres some good TC explanations out there.   For general purpose I’d want something about 1800-2200 with a 5.0L, for me.
I had a ‘low’ one, around 1100 I think, and it sucked ass. Coby had one built that IIRC was around 2500 with his 423 stroker, and swore by it. Just remember: higher stall, more heat when the going gets rough. Idling around in low low gear it won’t make much difference, except the higher stall is apparently less ‘jumpy’.   
 

From: mail-owner@broncofix.com [mailto:mail-owner@broncofix.com] On Behalf Of Steven Weddell
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 10:30 AM
To: ebml@bronco.com; mail@broncofix.com; bronco@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Bfix] Which Torque Conterter

 
While putting together my 5.0 swap I noticed that I have the small 10.5" torque converter in my 1976 C4. I am going to need to replace it and I am wondering if it would be better to just get a stock replacement or try and go with something with a different stall speed.

 

I mentioned this problem to the local NAPA guy while picking up some other parts. He had made mention that he used to build a lot of 700r4's for 4 wheel guys and said I should go with something with a low stall speed. Something like around 900. He said it would help with compression braking going downhill. Any truth to that?

 

I don't want to have something that will work just well in the rocks, but suffer the performance around town and on the freeway or having some fun in the snow. What would ge a good all around stall speed to run in a converter?

 

I am running a 5.0 with a E303 cam and some ported and polished E7 heads and I would like to get the most out of it. The tranny shops around here I have talked to won't give me a reccommendation as they just do repairs and don't sell hard parts to the public. And then they turn around and refer me to a distributor that won't sell to the public either.

 

Anybody with experience in this field?
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:19 am    Post subject: Which Torque Conterter Reply with quote

Yea, it would be best to have a custom one built. I think to just get it back on the road I will just get a stock replacement converter and then start exploring options next year as I looking into pulling it all back out to put in a doubler and go through the tranny at the same time.
 
 
Quote:
----- Original Message -----
From: Erik Christensen (cat44@shaw.ca)
To: 'Steven Weddell' (broncosteve@comcast.net) ; ebml@bronco.com (ebml@bronco.com) ; mail@broncofix.com (mail@broncofix.com) ; bronco@yahoogroups.com (bronco@yahoogroups.com)
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 8:34 PM
Subject: RE: [Bfix] Which Torque Conterter



You need to have it custom built if its not for a specific application.  To do it right, they need to know:
Intended use
Vehicle weight
Torque curve.
The stall speed will vary with power and weight changes.  Do a web search, theres some good TC explanations out there.   For general purpose I’d want something about 1800-2200 with a 5.0L, for me.
I had a ‘low’ one, around 1100 I think, and it sucked ass. Coby had one built that IIRC was around 2500 with his 423 stroker, and swore by it. Just remember: higher stall, more heat when the going gets rough. Idling around in low low gear it won’t make much difference, except the higher stall is apparently less ‘jumpy’.   
 

From: mail-owner@broncofix.com [mailto:mail-owner@broncofix.com] On Behalf Of Steven Weddell
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 10:30 AM
To: ebml@bronco.com; mail@broncofix.com; bronco@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Bfix] Which Torque Conterter

 
While putting together my 5.0 swap I noticed that I have the small 10.5" torque converter in my 1976 C4. I am going to need to replace it and I am wondering if it would be better to just get a stock replacement or try and go with something with a different stall speed.

 

I mentioned this problem to the local NAPA guy while picking up some other parts. He had made mention that he used to build a lot of 700r4's for 4 wheel guys and said I should go with something with a low stall speed. Something like around 900. He said it would help with compression braking going downhill. Any truth to that?

 

I don't want to have something that will work just well in the rocks, but suffer the performance around town and on the freeway or having some fun in the snow. What would ge a good all around stall speed to run in a converter?

 

I am running a 5.0 with a E303 cam and some ported and polished E7 heads and I would like to get the most out of it. The tranny shops around here I have talked to won't give me a reccommendation as they just do repairs and don't sell hard parts to the public. And then they turn around and refer me to a distributor that won't sell to the public either.

 

Anybody with experience in this field?

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TonyNokes
BFix Locked and Loaded
BFix Locked and Loaded


Joined: 18 Mar 2002
Posts: 536
Location: Portland, Oregon

PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:30 pm    Post subject: Which Torque Conterter Reply with quote

I went with a low stall point ~1000 so I could easily modulate the power to
the ground. For low range I can't imagine having a high stall point would be
any fun at all. As I understand it high stall converters were designed for
racing applications where you need the motor in it's power band before
loading the engine for a hard launch (which occurs at a higher RPM with
bigger cams). Since most of us aren't racing and don't need to be at peak
torque for launching go with a low stall converter, it will help save your
transmission and fuel!

Tony


-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Lougee [mailto:71broncoman@prodigy.net]
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 3:59 PM
Cc: ebml@bronco.com; mail@broncofix.com
Subject: Re: [Bfix] Which Torque Conterter


When I had mine done we settled on about an 100 RPM stall with the C-6
and 4.9 inliner. I will say it works great and I've been very happy
with it.

Where the torque comes on makes a big difference in where you want the
stall. The lower it hits, the lower the stall should be, unless you're
power braking on launch.
Joe


sean gaudette wrote:

> I had my first converter built with a 2600rpm stall for the 393. I
> hated it. It allowed the engine to to rev too high before moving and I
> always had too much power going to the ground, i was always breaking
> the tires free instead of creeping ahead. I sent it back and had it
> re-worked for a 1800rpm which is at about where my TQ is at
> 80+%(guesstimate) of its max and it crawls soooooooooo much better.
> if you take a look on pirate a lot of those guys go with really low
> stall speeds too. I would guess(and again its just that a guess) that
> the higher the TQ available would allow you to have a lower stall speed.
>
>> From: Erik Christensen <cat44@shaw.ca>
>> To: "'Steven Weddell'" <Broncosteve@comcast.net>, ebml@bronco.com,
>> mail@broncofix.com, bronco@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: RE: [Bfix] Which Torque Conterter
>> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:34:43 -0800
>>
>> You need to have it custom built if its not for a specific
>> application. To
>> do it right, they need to know:
>>
>> Intended use
>>
>> Vehicle weight
>>
>> Torque curve.
>>
>> The stall speed will vary with power and weight changes. Do a web
>> search,
>> theres some good TC explanations out there. For general purpose I'd
>> want
>> something about 1800-2200 with a 5.0L, for me.
>>
>> I had a 'low' one, around 1100 I think, and it sucked ass. Coby had one
>> built that IIRC was around 2500 with his 423 stroker, and swore by
>> it. Just
>> remember: higher stall, more heat when the going gets rough. Idling
>> around
>> in low low gear it won't make much difference, except the higher
>> stall is
>> apparently less 'jumpy'.
>>
>>
>>
>> _____
>>
>> From: mail-owner@broncofix.com [mailto:mail-owner@broncofix.com] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Steven Weddell
>> Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 10:30 AM
>> To: ebml@bronco.com; mail@broncofix.com; bronco@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [Bfix] Which Torque Conterter
>>
>>
>>
>> While putting together my 5.0 swap I noticed that I have the small 10.5"
>> torque converter in my 1976 C4. I am going to need to replace it and
>> I am
>> wondering if it would be better to just get a stock replacement or
>> try and
>> go with something with a different stall speed.
>>
>>
>>
>> I mentioned this problem to the local NAPA guy while picking up some
>> other
>> parts. He had made mention that he used to build a lot of 700r4's for 4
>> wheel guys and said I should go with something with a low stall speed.
>> Something like around 900. He said it would help with compression
>> braking
>> going downhill. Any truth to that?
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't want to have something that will work just well in the rocks,
>> but
>> suffer the performance around town and on the freeway or having some
>> fun in
>> the snow. What would ge a good all around stall speed to run in a
>> converter?
>>
>>
>>
>> I am running a 5.0 with a E303 cam and some ported and polished E7
>> heads and
>> I would like to get the most out of it. The tranny shops around here
>> I have
>> talked to won't give me a reccommendation as they just do repairs and
>> don't
>> sell hard parts to the public. And then they turn around and refer me
>> to a
>> distributor that won't sell to the public either.
>>
>>
>>
>> Anybody with experience in this field?
>>
>
>
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kincade
Bfix Carb'd
Bfix Carb'd


Joined: 01 Aug 2002
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:12 am    Post subject: Which Torque Conterter Reply with quote

I'd have to agree with coby; my stall was around 2700 rpm, but with an STR
(stall torque ratio) of 2.7:1; and it pulled HARD at idle. Ditto on the
heat issue though; the better the converter, the more cooling you're gonna
need.

At 07:33 AM 12/17/2004, Coby Hughey wrote:
>My tc did have a high stall, but it also was built with a high
>efficiency. I could tow another bronco on level ground just on idle, at
>low rpm, without touching the gas pedal, even though the stall speed was
>around 3000 rpm. I could idle through the trail at 800 rpm and have to
>use the brakes to keep it from going. The idea that stall speed equals
>the speed at which you begin moving is a myth. Efficiency is one of the
>key aspects of a torque converter. I will say, however, that a higher
>stall converter builds more heat, and I used some 56,000 vehicle lbs
>worth of cooling on my tranny before it became reliable. (that was
>three high efficiency coolers) Build a good quality converter for your
>custom motor and mate it to the torque peak of your motor, not to what
>buddies tell you a stall speed should be on a rockcrawler. I used Trans
>King out of Galveston, TX with very good results. Try to get at least
>2.5:1 efficiency.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: ebml-owner@bronco.com [mailto:ebml-owner@bronco.com] On Behalf Of
>Joe Lougee
>Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:59 PM
>Cc: ebml@bronco.com; mail@broncofix.com
>Subject: Re: [EBML] [Bfix] Which Torque Conterter
>
>When I had mine done we settled on about an 100 RPM stall with the C-6
>and 4.9 inliner. I will say it works great and I've been very happy
>with it.
>
>Where the torque comes on makes a big difference in where you want the
>stall. The lower it hits, the lower the stall should be, unless you're
>power braking on launch.
>Joe
>
>
>sean gaudette wrote:
>
> > I had my first converter built with a 2600rpm stall for the 393. I
> > hated it. It allowed the engine to to rev too high before moving and I
>
> > always had too much power going to the ground, i was always breaking
> > the tires free instead of creeping ahead. I sent it back and had it
> > re-worked for a 1800rpm which is at about where my TQ is at
> > 80+%(guesstimate) of its max and it crawls soooooooooo much better.
> > if you take a look on pirate a lot of those guys go with really low
> > stall speeds too. I would guess(and again its just that a guess) that
>
> > the higher the TQ available would allow you to have a lower stall
>speed.
> >
> >> From: Erik Christensen <cat44@shaw.ca>
> >> To: "'Steven Weddell'" <Broncosteve@comcast.net>, ebml@bronco.com,
> >> mail@broncofix.com, bronco@yahoogroups.com
> >> Subject: RE: [Bfix] Which Torque Conterter
> >> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:34:43 -0800
> >>
> >> You need to have it custom built if its not for a specific
> >> application. To
> >> do it right, they need to know:
> >>
> >> Intended use
> >>
> >> Vehicle weight
> >>
> >> Torque curve.
> >>
> >> The stall speed will vary with power and weight changes. Do a web
> >> search,
> >> theres some good TC explanations out there. For general purpose I'd
>
> >> want
> >> something about 1800-2200 with a 5.0L, for me.
> >>
> >> I had a 'low' one, around 1100 I think, and it sucked ass. Coby had
>one
> >> built that IIRC was around 2500 with his 423 stroker, and swore by
> >> it. Just
> >> remember: higher stall, more heat when the going gets rough. Idling
> >> around
> >> in low low gear it won't make much difference, except the higher
> >> stall is
> >> apparently less 'jumpy'.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _____
> >>
> >> From: mail-owner@broncofix.com [mailto:mail-owner@broncofix.com] On
> >> Behalf
> >> Of Steven Weddell
> >> Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 10:30 AM
> >> To: ebml@bronco.com; mail@broncofix.com; bronco@yahoogroups.com
> >> Subject: [Bfix] Which Torque Conterter
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> While putting together my 5.0 swap I noticed that I have the small
>10.5"
> >> torque converter in my 1976 C4. I am going to need to replace it and
> >> I am
> >> wondering if it would be better to just get a stock replacement or
> >> try and
> >> go with something with a different stall speed.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I mentioned this problem to the local NAPA guy while picking up some
> >> other
> >> parts. He had made mention that he used to build a lot of 700r4's for
>4
> >> wheel guys and said I should go with something with a low stall
>speed.
> >> Something like around 900. He said it would help with compression
> >> braking
> >> going downhill. Any truth to that?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I don't want to have something that will work just well in the rocks,
>
> >> but
> >> suffer the performance around town and on the freeway or having some
> >> fun in
> >> the snow. What would ge a good all around stall speed to run in a
> >> converter?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I am running a 5.0 with a E303 cam and some ported and polished E7
> >> heads and
> >> I would like to get the most out of it. The tranny shops around here
> >> I have
> >> talked to won't give me a reccommendation as they just do repairs and
>
> >> don't
> >> sell hard parts to the public. And then they turn around and refer me
>
> >> to a
> >> distributor that won't sell to the public either.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Anybody with experience in this field?
> >>
> >
> >
> > ********************* BFix Site Sponsor ****************************
> > Cage Offroad Suspension lifts, Offroad accessories and more!
> > http://www.cageoffroad.com
> > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
> > List help? http://www.broncofix.com or email to: admin@broncofix.com
> >
>
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Kincade Bauer, Darkhorse

Discount Advance Adaptors Dealer: http://www.hospitalfood.net/700/prices.html

700R4 behind a small-block ford:
http://www.hospitalfood.net/700/700install.html

-1973 Bronco
Kenne Bell Supercharged/Fuel Injected 5.0 [bypass, 8#'s, 36# injectors,
Kenne-Bell switch chip, T-rex 50/70 with Carter 98 gph l/p pusher, 80MM
Ford MAF, 65MM Accufab TB, J&S Ultra-Safeguard] 700R4, AtlasII 4.3:1,
Detroit/ARB w/ 5.13's, Full-Width Axles, 35" MTR's, AGR close-ratio
box/pump, Tom Woods l/t driveshafts, 28 year old paint

-1998 Mustang Vobra, Vortech SQ 10#, aftercooled, tuned by Powertrain
Dynamics, brembos, KB level 4 suspension = 485.5rwhp and 411ft/lb. torque

-1997 Powerstroke, **sold 02-03**

-1989 Mustang LX 5.0 **sold 02-02**


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