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Tom Dummer
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:54 pm    Post subject: I'm having wrenchers block Reply with quote

I have a few projects to do on my Bronco, but I don't want to start them right now.
I need the exhaust manifold fixed, got some headers from Arsenio but this project wont fix the problems.
Theres still something wrong with the firing and/ or the carburation. I have no idea where too go there.
I need to work on the power steering and I even have the Saginaw box but I need a V belt pulley and the bracket for a 351. THIS project could be done with the right parts

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DirtDonk
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like you need a Muse.
I can send you the bracket and pulley in an envelope, but that just gets them to your door. It doesn't get them on the rig.
First you'd have to open the envelope, spread the parts out in front of the Bronco, and with a stare, "will" them into installing themselves.

Or get them from Tom's and, in the true spirit of the Northwest, someone there would probably be willing to pop on over to get the ball rolling. Of course, by "get the ball rolling", they may interpret that as hitting you in the head (with the BFH you have sitting on your workbench with nothing to do) to get you out of your Holiday funk! All the while, shouting "Snap out of it!" in their best interpretation of Cher's voice.

So, naturally I turn that around into the fact that it might just be safer to buy from us. See? A bit of creative sales craft from an online ghost and you're back on track to finishing your project(s) after all.

Happy Winter (the dry season?).

Paul

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DirtDonk
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, or better yet, "Party at Tom's house!" instead?
Heck, get enough people over there and I bet they could bring their own, or find all the parts you need just buried under other parts you needed but didn't use (yet) and you won't have to spend a dime.
Well, other than for food and drink. Which of course we all know won't be that expensive to keep a bunch of hard working Bronco heads fed.
Expensive being a relative word of course.

Paul

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'71 Bronco - 302 4v
3.5" WH/Skyjacker Lift
33 x 11.50 x15 Thornbirds on 15x7 Enkei's
Kayline soft top
Hanson bumpers
Dual batteries, Large 1G alt.

WWW.WILDHORSES4X4.COM Mr. Green
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Brandon
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DirtDonk wrote:
Hmm, or better yet, "Party at Tom's house!" instead?
Paul


Someone say party at Toms? Razz

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Brandon
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you ever yank that MSD BS out and try some less glitchless firing components?
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Tom Dummer
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brandon wrote:
Did you ever yank that MSD BS out and try some less glitchless firing components?

Come drink my beer & we'll throw screwdrivers at it.

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Tom Dummer
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DirtDonk wrote:
Sounds like you need a Muse.
I can send you the bracket and pulley in an envelope, but that just gets them to your door. It doesn't get them on the rig.
First you'd have to open the envelope, spread the parts out in front of the Bronco, and with a stare, "will" them into installing themselves.

Or get them from Tom's and, in the true spirit of the Northwest, someone there would probably be willing to pop on over to get the ball rolling. Of course, by "get the ball rolling", they may interpret that as hitting you in the head (with the BFH you have sitting on your workbench with nothing to do) to get you out of your Holiday funk! All the while, shouting "Snap out of it!" in their best interpretation of Cher's voice. Paul


You want to see Stan doing a karaoke of Cher?
I'd get the parts and set them up, then I'd have to figure out the damned pressure hose to the Toyota box. And I have the pulleys off a 78 LTD where the York is above the power steering pump so I have to try and get the pump down in there anyway, and the Toyota pump I'm using now has a homebrew mounting bracket that has a belt tensioner. Where is the tensioner on the Sag box? See I just added a project that is going to keep me from getting this thing back on the trail.

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Brandon
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You better hurry, hangover run is in exactly one month. Razz

You gunna throw a work party soon?

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Stan
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom Dummer wrote:
Brandon wrote:
Did you ever yank that MSD BS out and try some less glitchless firing components?

Come drink my beer & we'll throw screwdrivers at it.

I got 2# of Tannerite that cures most MSD issues. Smile
Dig into that pocket book - the local U Pull it should/could have the exhaust manifold - and WHs or TBPS should have the bracket.
Does someone local have an MSD "loaner " box you can try to see if the box is the problem ? how bout a loaner carb to see if that's contributing to the mystery.
Stan

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Tom Dummer
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a loaner box. "most" of the misfiring is gone. I regapped the plugs out to 60 thou. and that quieted the spark jump a bunch. the carb still stumbles and absolutely falls on its face when I'm accelerating in third gear especially , it feels like it runs out of fuel. This has been happening for a long time, its just frustrating as hell. It also does it on long pulls, climbing grades, rock crawls.......
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Stan
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since you know 10 times more than I do about electrical and since I know very little about MSD stuff - I'm just throwing out some Hail Mary stuff - so don't yell at me. Smile
Is it possible for the alternator/regulator to put out too many Volts for MSD Box?
Have you tried the biggest coil wire that you can find? {not solid core}
You said the plugs were good -but how about the gap? I read on the internet Rolling Eyes that the wrong gap can cause issues ; also wrong length or heat range -- or something- hey can't remember everything I read on the WWW. Smile
Have you tried the dialectric grease trick - not on the contacts but on the boots as insulation.
I don't have any PS pulleys but do have 3-4 crank pulleys of different sizes and a couple of WP pulleys.
I've got a 600cfm Edelbrock carb that's been sitting in the outer garage for 10yrs - so it probably wouldn't help in test of carb issues - but could try if you want.
Stan

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Stan
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geez - so you post up this stuff while i'm composing my post - Wink
Can't remember if you're running mech fuel pump or electrical. Fuel pump could be losing it's ability to pump at efficiency. Hmm - I do remember that fuel issues on long pull in 3rd is indicative of --? just can't remember what that's a symptom of - Oo I'll look it up on the Intermnet Laughing Laughing
I know you had to pull carb apart out on sand dunes - think it's a float issue?
How bout fuel tank configuration ? 1 tank or 2? sometimes the fuel line gets air pockets if it has high spots .
Stan

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Brandon
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if your 3rd gear hesitation is anything like what I was going though. Mine was a mix of improper vacuum to the advance along with q-jet tune and slight timing change. But mostly vacuum is what made a huge difference.
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Tom Dummer
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stan wrote:
Since you know 10 times more than I do about electrical and since I know very little about MSD stuff - I'm just throwing out some Hail Mary stuff - so don't yell at me. Smile
Is it possible for the alternator/regulator to put out too many Volts for MSD Box?
I fixed the voltage issue about a year ago. I was running at 17-18 volts but now I'm back to normal voltages
Have you tried the biggest coil wire that you can find? {not solid core}
I'm using MSD 8.5mm wire
You said the plugs were good -but how about the gap? I read on the internet Rolling Eyes that the wrong gap can cause issues ; also wrong length or heat range -- or something- hey can't remember everything I read on the WWW. Smile
Because of the hot MSD I was told to widen the gap, I'm at 60 thousandths on that.
Have you tried the dialectric grease trick - not on the contacts but on the boots as insulation.
I don't have any PS pulleys but do have 3-4 crank pulleys of different sizes and a couple of WP pulleys.
So do I
I've got a 600cfm Edelbrock carb that's been sitting in the outer garage for 10yrs - so it probably wouldn't help in test of carb issues - but could try if you want.
I need to open the carb and lower the float a bit to see if that helps
Stan

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Stan
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brandon wrote:
I wonder if your 3rd gear hesitation is anything like what I was going though. Mine was a mix of improper vacuum to the advance along with q-jet tune and slight timing change. But mostly vacuum is what made a huge difference.

Some of the MSD dizzys don't have vacuum advance - hmm - could be onto something -- yours' have v advance Tom?
Stan

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Tom Dummer
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Dizzy was rebuilt by MSN last January after I found it to be rusted solid (from battery acid). Something about boiling a battery at over 15 volts.
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Stan
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But does your dizzy have vacuum advance?
Like Brandon said he cured a lot of his problems with the QJet and Pertronix distributor by changing the vacuum source.
Stan

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Arsenio
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmm you never asked about a saginaw ps bracket, I know i have one of those laying around. You know if you ask i probably have it.
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Tom Dummer
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok. Arsenio, you're getting company in about an hour.
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Tom Dummer
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stan wrote:
But does your dizzy have vacuum advance?

Stan

No the dizz has weights inside. After last years jumping with a broken battery tiedown, I tore a hole in the top of the battery. I should replace the battery so it doesn't splash acid in there too much more.

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Brandon
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh how I love how this story grows. Soon we are gunna hear about using non Ford parts on a ford engine held together with brackets that were scappoose engineered. Oh wait to late Laughing
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Tom Dummer
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pulling the Toyota pump OFF of it so I have more Ford parts. I just need to find a place to crimp a Ford PS hose to a Toyota box hose.
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Tom Dummer
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I take it out to Arsenios to see where it is having problems......And the bitch runs fine. I can leave it in the afterburners from a stop sign to 70 mph and there's no stumbling. the power steering isn't dragging and the ignition isn't missing. What kind of F'n gremlins are sleeping today?! I guess I'll put the insurance back on it and see how it runs for a while.
Maybe running one of the needles in a few turns (to make it the same as the other side) helped with the falling on its face on acceleration. BUT it did that after I finished the carb kit.....

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BroncoDave
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom Dummer wrote:
So I take it out to Arsenios to see where it is having problems......And the bitch runs fine. I can leave it in the afterburners from a stop sign to 70 mph and there's no stumbling. the power steering isn't dragging and the ignition isn't missing. What kind of F'n gremlins are sleeping today?!

Maybe a vacuum or fuel hose is collapsing, in cold weather it could be staying open due to being harder. I have had a pcv vacuum hose that would suck closed and cause weird problems.

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DirtDonk
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe the colder weather? Was the air wet or dry that day?
I'd have to say your gaps are too big too. Not that .060 is unheard of mind you, or that under the right circumstances a good setup can't jump that gap. It's just that it's so large that with any little extra pressure (too lean, too rich, air too dense, air too thin, fuel additives heavier or lighter, more or less water in the fuel, timing more advance or retarded, etc, etc, etc...) such as happens under acceleration, you could get more flame-out events per cycle. Hence the mis-fire and other gremlins.
And combustion chamber shape has a huge effect on what gaps are too big/small.

Long way of asking you if you ever tried just standard gaps from .038 to .045? GM HEI gaps were typically in the .055 range, but even Duraspark equipped Fords rarely spec'ed out over .045" or so if I remember.
Mine always ran best at .042" or so. And that was with an ignition setup that could jump a spark almost 6 inches across an air gap!

Also, what type of plug are we talking about here?

Paul

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'71 Bronco - 302 4v
3.5" WH/Skyjacker Lift
33 x 11.50 x15 Thornbirds on 15x7 Enkei's
Kayline soft top
Hanson bumpers
Dual batteries, Large 1G alt.

WWW.WILDHORSES4X4.COM Mr. Green
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